Thursday, December 12, 2024

LDS apostle Orson Hyde's Arguments on "Miracles" in 1836 Disproves Modern Mormonism

The apostle Orson Hyde wrote the following in his 1836 pamphlet A prophetic warning to all the churches… (emphasis added; words in brackets added by me):


Again: Paul said, God set some in the church, first apostles; secondly, prophets, thirdly, teachers; after that miracles; then gifts of healing, helps governments, diversities of tongues. -- To one is given by the spirit, the word of wisdom; to another, faith by the same spirit; to another, the word of knowledge by the same spirit; to another the gifts of healing; to another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretation of tongues." This seems to have been the gospel and order of worship which Paul advocated and established: and said "Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Do the gentile [and LDS] churches, of this day, preach and practice the above order? or have they lost it? They certainly have lost it. And have they not great reason to fear that a curse instead of a blessing will rest upon them. If the Jews were broken off because of unbelief, what must the Gentiles expect, who have not continued in the goodness of the Lord? It really appeared to me that every person who is not biased by most unhallowed prejudice, can see that the churches [including modern LDS] of this day bear but a faint resemblance to those which existed in the days of the Apostles. Whence arises this difference? Do we live under a different dispensation from what they did? If we do, when was the dispensation changed, and by whose authority? If we do not, why not preach and practice the same things which they did? ... 

 

... The great body of the clergy [including LDS] are acting without authority from God at this time. My reasons for saying so, are these. 1st. The sick are not healed under their hands. 2. They do not confirm those whom they baptize by the laying on of their hands for the gift of the Holy Spirit: and why? because they are not authorized so to do: Yet it appears, that they rather impeach the system of heaven, than their own course in relation to it. But I say, let God be true, and every man a liar. Christ's doctrine was a doctrine of miracles, and healing the sick; and John the Apostle, says: "Whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ; he hath both the Father and the Son." Again: Christ said unto the Jews, "He that is of God, heareth God's words. Ye, therefore, hear them not because ye are not of God." How, I ask, can the clergy of this day, be of God; and yet deny all miraculous powers? How can God be with them when they have not abode in the doctrine of Christ?


When Orson Hyde wrote this the LDS church was more Pentecostal in temperament (from about 1830-1837). Between 1830-1837, Joseph Smith was claiming to receive constant revelations from the voice of Jesus. Joseph Smith and LDS leaders were constantly claiming to heal the sick and even trying to raise the dead at this time. People would literally stand up in gatherings and try to prophesy or literally speak in tongues (technically called glossolalia), while today most LDS consider this speaking gibberish.


 Overtime, this speaking in tongues (glossolalia) became too chaotic and it was removed as a frequent practice between 1837 and 1899. In other words, back then pre-1837, LDS members were more Pentecostal in worship style and more superstitious; they expected their prophet to be an actual prophet, seer and revelator. Meaning back then Joseph Smith acted out the role of a literal seer, claiming to be able to see the future. He acted as a literal revelator, receiving constant revelations that were canonized as the "word of God" in LDS scripture. People were expected to literally be healed of sickness and even death through miraculous healings. Today, most Mormons go straight to the doctor! 


Yes, some Mormons today are more believing in supernatural intervention than other LDS members. But the mainstream LDS Church, and even other Book of Mormon churches outside of Utah, do not really think that you should pray over somebody rather than taking them to the doctor. Nobody actually tries to "speak in tongues" (glossinalia) and have an interpreter of the miracle of glossinalia in a meeting. Instead, Mormons say that what "speak in tongues" really means is that you can learn a foreign language as a missionary. But this is not what the Apostle Paul meant by "speaking in tongues," he meant a literal random spirit-inspired gifted ability to a speak foreign language or the language of angels without learning it beforehand. 


So I would argue that Orson Hyde's arguments against the Protestants of his day -- when they rejected the idea of prophets, seers, and revelators and Pentecostal-type glossonalia and other miracles -- can now be applied to the LDS Church today. In other words, LDS leaders no longer act as seers or revelators like Joseph Smith did, and they do not prophesy and do not actually (i.e. provably) heal the sick or raise the dead.


The fact is we are just too rational and scientific today with our modern educations, cell phones,  computers and AI, and all the advancements in science, to believe in such superstitious ideas. We know that the idea of someone spontaneously speaking a foreign language without ever attempting to learn that language is superstitious nonsense. We know that God does not heal amputees. We know that miracles do not happen as described in the New Testament. We know this because we continue to go to the doctor instead of only praying over people; and those who don't take for example their children to the doctor and just pray for them instead of also seeking medical attention, can be accused of child endangerment or negligect for putting children in danger of dying or becoming ill without medical intervention. Such parents who do refuse to take their children to the doctor and instead just pray over them can be put in jail for committing a crime. The fact is we are less superstitious and credulous nowadays after living on the other side of Pasteur, Darwin, and Einstein, etc.  


The fact is being a "saint" today (an alleged "holy one"), who has the alleged power to practice glossonalia and heal amputees or prophesy the future or reveal the literal words of Jesus to be printed in scripture, is no longer really believed in and clearly not practiced by modern LDS leaders and members. The fact is, nobody believes in any of that anymore.


 We know that demons don't cause disease, but germs or viruses do, etc. So somebody does not need a priesthood-holding saint to perform an exorcism, but better hygiene or medical intervention.


To deal with this obvious end to exorcisms, miracles, etc., due to the rise of modern science, things like glossonalia has become learning a foreign language; alleged prophets no longer act as revelators of new scripture but now warn people to not use the word "mormon" for example.


 There are no more actual healings or provable miracles, only prayers over those after we take them to the hospital. Prayer now acts as a  psychological comfort and maybe a placebo effect; but no one who is educated and sane today expects "miracle prayers" to trump medical intervention. Sure we may pray for someone after taking them to the hospital, but we don't not take someone to the hospital and pray over them instead: for that would be considered insane nowadays, and likely illegal when it comes to children, which is the view even among most Christians. 


To learn more about how in the early Mormon Church, the alleged miracle of speaking in tongues (glossinalia) was a common and expected practice among LDS members, and how it was later eventually weeded out from common practice, see the article: Speaking in Tongues in the Restoration Churches by Lee Copeland (PDF link).

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LDS apostle Orson Hyde's Arguments on "Miracles" in 1836 Disproves Modern Mormonism

The apostle Orson Hyde wrote the following in his 1836 pamphlet A prophetic warning to all the churches…  (emphasis added; words in brackets...